Gas Co.'s Buying Out Properties!

[relenemiller]

Not certain which one, does it matter....Gas Co. just bought the Genetti...no surprise..more taxes for residences! They just bought the Dollar Store on fourth and they have to be out in four or five days..just heard this today. Maybe some of you have already heard. I was in a local store today and there were several people there when the individual spoke to this and you should have heard the firestorm!

[Gavin]

If either were true I am sure the SG would have headlined it, or at the very minimum had a story and mentioned it.

It sounds more like anti-gas company hysteria to me.

[leisuresuitlarry]

I already suspect gasholes are living in the Bonanza building. The owner allegedly closed the restaurant to sell it to someone who was going to build apartments for gasholes - right.... he probably threw in a few cots and a few tweaks here and there and is getting mucho dinero from the gasholes for it.

[Gavin]

Actually, I think one of the gas companies are putting their offices in their. I know Anadarko will be building their regional offices in part of the old Piper plant in Lock Haven. It's better than a vacant building.

[relenemiller]

Not necessarily Gav....property transfers are public record through the court house and it is possible that the transfer itself may not have happened yet. It certainly would come as no surprise that the gas co. would want to purchase the Genetti...I mean think about it...the rooms and space for more rooms. My understanding is that the gas co.'s are not allowed, by law (as if anyone is really monitoring) to rent from a private citizen. So, if they buy the property, then it becomes corporate..

The cost of the gas co.'s presumed economic development and their expansion is going to cost the locals more than they bargained for. I have stated this on the SG and I will make no apologies for my opinion on the gas co.'s in this state or any other. It is probably where I become moderate, more than conservative and in this area alone. I have no problem with success and what transpires as a result of capitalism. I do have a problem with no accountability to corporations. All that glitters is not gold!We were fed a bill of sale with respect to these co's and it is after the fact now to expect any accountability. The average medium income in this country pre gas co. expansion doesn't begin to compete with the average wages of the workers that are killing themselves for the sake of gold. That being said, how can we justify the costs that will rise to the locals, as a result of in turn wages from the gas co.'s workers? Elderly people are being affected in more ways than one, not the least of which is when these companies buy the larger accommodating structures that house our elderly, the prices go up and they can't afford it.

I have no doubt Phil will weigh in on this as he is a capitalist. Clearly only a fool would know that progress is important, where we disagree is at what cost.

[philunderwood]

What do you propose we do about these perceived injustices, Relene?

[twinder]

There is not a law that states any company cannot rent from a private individual. I'm not sure where you might have heard that one. If, and that's a big if, the Genetti was sold to a gas company, that is the prerogative of the owner of the Genetti to do so.

I have been dealing with several of the Gas companies and those that serve them since they have been moving operations into our township. Yes, there are those in the area that are skirting regulations and ordinances. But in all honesty, so are a lot of other businesses that have been here for years and years.

You really don't want to get me started on this. I know too much about too many people and their "business" dealings.

[relenemiller]

"What do you propose we do about these perceived injustices, Relene?"


Phil, I guess nothing but to presume that my injustices as you refer to are "perceived" is not fair. There really isn't anything to do at this juncture. Capitalism is what it is. And guys, I'm not here to dispute the veracity of civilian claims to the exploding entity called the free market. Nothing is free, Phil. I don't have any problem with progress, if kept in check! And, it is not unrealistic to expect any company that draws from any of our natural resources to follow regulations.

Todd, any business skirting regulations isn't right, but fooling around with our natural resources is a big deal to me. And, it should be to you guys. Please don't confuse expecting accountability with desiring to suppress free market. Are you suggesting that the free market is impotent if it has to adhere to regulations? Or, is it that it would cut into profits, and that somehow as a consumer and a human being who survives needing water, that I or anyone else should expect it to be kept safe? Is that an unreasonable expectation of a regulation? Is not wanting people to be evicted from an apt, housing unit they bought unreasonable because they live on a fixed income and there shouldn't' be any safe guards to prevent that happening? Tell me where my thinking is run astray? Do you think that the person who has lived in this town all their life, works hard for a survivable income, that someone who comes here and makes triple that income, and probably never resides long enough to pay property taxes, should be the factor in how much you or I pay at the grocery store? What about this am I not understanding? The info. on a corporation being able to rent from a private individual, I'll take as your word against where I heard it. However, in some respects, it would make sense as to their buying up property.

And, you're absolutely correct about if Gus sold out for the right price, why shouldn't he...after all it is his property. After all, he's made his zillions and he still has the WB/Scranton area. Why should he care if that sale went through as I heard, about our community anymore? When Little Leaguer's come here, if the sale went through, the going rates of a hotel accommodation should really be sky high for people. And yes, I know it only happens once a year, but it does bring this community millions over that one week. Don't think for one second that if those people who come here, for whatever connection to that entire week, have to spend more on a motel room(s), that they just might cut back in other ways in our community? Capitalism, for all its good, Phil, doesn't come with a free market...nothing is free. You're too smart to not know that. I'm guessing that most people on this board believe that the ends justifies the means. And no, I'm not becoming a liberal. But, I have always had an issue with big industry and their less than zero accountability to anything or anyone outside of their accountant!

[twinder]

Aug 11, 2011 19:01:08 GMT -5 relenemiller said:

"What do you propose we do about these perceived injustices, Relene?"


Phil, I guess nothing but to presume that my injustices as you refer to are "perceived" is not fair. There really isn't anything to do at this juncture. Capitalism is what it is. And guys, I'm not here to dispute the veracity of civilian claims to the exploding entity called the free market. Nothing is free, Phil. I don't have any problem with progress, if kept in check! And, it is not unrealistic to expect any company that draws from any of our natural resources to follow regulations. Correct. The companies that draw our natural resources already have several regulations to follow. So do many other industries and corporations. Those should be enforced. This industry, which has been functioning for over 100 years, is suddenly being vilified and all these new regs are being proposed. It just seems ridiculous to me. We cannot enforce the regulations we have now but we are going to impose new ones so that we somehow, "feel better" about things.

Todd, any business skirting regulations isn't right, but fooling around with our natural resources is a big deal to me. And, it should be to you guys. Please don't confuse expecting accountability with desiring to suppress free market. Are you suggesting that the free market is impotent if it has to adhere to regulations? Or, is it that it would cut into profits, and that somehow as a consumer and a human being who survives needing water, that I or anyone else should expect it to be kept safe? Is that an unreasonable expectation of a regulation? Is not wanting people to be evicted from an apt, housing unit they bought unreasonable because they live on a fixed income and there shouldn't' be any safe guards to prevent that happening? Tell me where my thinking is run astray? Do you think that the person who has lived in this town all their life, works hard for a survivable income, that someone who comes here and makes triple that income, and probably never resides long enough to pay property taxes, should be the factor in how much you or I pay at the grocery store? What about this am I not understanding? The info. on a corporation being able to rent from a private individual, I'll take as your word against where I heard it. However, in some respects, it would make sense as to their buying up property.

And, you're absolutely correct about if Gus sold out for the right price, why shouldn't he...after all it is his property. After all, he's made his zillions and he still has the WB/Scranton area. Why should he care if that sale went through as I heard, about our community anymore? When Little Leaguer's come here, if the sale went through, the going rates of a hotel accommodation should really be sky high for people. And yes, I know it only happens once a year, but it does bring this community millions over that one week. Don't think for one second that if those people who come here, for whatever connection to that entire week, have to spend more on a motel room(s), that they just might cut back in other ways in our community? Capitalism, for all its good, Phil, doesn't come with a free market...nothing is free. You're too smart to not know that. I'm guessing that most people on this board believe that the ends justifies the means. And no, I'm not becoming a liberal. But, I have always had an issue with big industry and their less than zero accountability to anything or anyone outside of their accountant!

I'm not sure how you can blame the gas industry for someone losing their home. I think that's quite a stretch. Why is it that no one seems to care that the hospital could evict all those people from their homes? Those people sure didn't deserve to lose their homes did they?

I strongly feel that people are over-reacting to this industry and without good reason. I hear a lot about the water contamination in Dimock, PA. Yet, I recall that the gas company accused was found to NOT be responsible for the problem.

I spent a few hours tonight at a meeting where someone made a comment that gas drilling contaminated his water well with Methane Gas. Yet, there is not a gas well within four (4) air miles of his well. I think it boils down to "change." Some people simply fear change. And why? That, I can't tell you.

[Gavin]

If one of the gas companies were buying either the Genetti or Family Dollar, a transaction that large and the SG would handle that as news and not wait for the property transfer notice in the paper.

Again, from what I can tell it is nothing more than anti-gas hysteria.

[leisuresuitlarry]

This town, region needs a giant roll of Tums to get rid of all these gas pains.

[philunderwood]

Todd pretty well summarized my response to these posts. I too believe concerns about the gas industry are blown all out of proportion and fueled by the environmental extremists and anti-progress types.

We have plenty of laws and regulations on the books to prosecute any industry or individual that pollutes the environment; and I’d still like an answer as to what some people are proposing we do to change anything that’s happening anyway. Complaining isn’t going to accomplish anything but stir people up.

[relenemiller]

"I'm not sure how you can blame the gas industry for someone losing their home. I think that's quite a stretch. Why is it that no one seems to care that the hospital could evict all those people from their homes? Those people sure didn't deserve to lose their homes did they?"

Contrary' Todd, I did care that people lost their homes due to industry expansion..but, just as this is happening with more expansion, there is nothing I can do and it is in that realm of helplessness that I find myself upset. Just going off.....

They gas hysteria? My best friends are still having water brought into their home because of methane in their water (both verified by the EPA AND THE GAS CO.) So, please don't tell me that this is hysteria. People don't care until it is someone they know who becomes a victim of their greed. Remember the couple who were on the news almost six weeks ago? Well, they are our best friends and they never had a water problem...until they sold out with the assurance that nothing would happen to their water and if it did, the Co. would take care of it. Do you guys think that these people make this stuff up? None of you can be this naive'.

Phil,

"We have plenty of laws and regulations on the books to prosecute any industry or individual that pollutes the environment"


That's comforting Phil after the fact?

"blown all out of proportion."

That's an interesting choice of words given the story that I just shared about our friends.

[relenemiller]

I cautioned my friends before they leased off half of their acreage, to wait for a bit...let the co.'s prove their word, but others (not anti-progressives types) assured them they had nothing to worry about.

Because I am not a tree hugger, or anti-progressive...should not be construed to make light of the "accountability" issue. I find it interesting that progressives (in the course of industry growth and expansion) believe that corporations shouldn't be held to stringent regulations and oversight, but in the same breath, complain about those who live off the nanny state and should be accountable as individuals. There is a contradiction in corporate responsibility and your collusion with individual responsibility. BOTH NEED TO BE HELD IN SAME LIGHT!

[relenemiller]

"I spent a few hours tonight at a meeting where someone made a comment that gas drilling contaminated his water well with Methane Gas. Yet, there is not a gas well within four (4) air miles of his well. I think it boils down to "change." Some people simply fear change. And why? That, I can't tell you. "

O.K., Todd...if there was methane in their gas, where did it come from, if it was non-existent prior to the company being one, two three four...ten miles from their home?

I concur that there are people who are getting upset with no real basis, but when there is validation and justification, someone or some entity needs to be accountable, period. Denying that progress doesn't come with a price, is ludicrous, at best.

[twinder]

Relene,
Hydro-fracturing wells for gas and oil has been done in the US and around the world since the 40's. If it causes all of this stuff to happen, we would surely have much more problems by now.

I can't speak about your friends. They made a deal with the gas company. This matter is between them and the company. If the gas company is providing clean water to them, as was agreed to in the first place, I'm not sure what the gas drillers would be considered as doing "wrong." There was an agreement and they are holding up their end of it. If they weren't, then I could understand it.

There was a big problem with Methane simply rising from the ground near Watsontown/Allenwood area several years ago. Some actually tried to blame it on cows! From what I recall about it, it was a naturally occurring condition. You do realize that the earth is constantly changing, right?

Look, I'm not "on" either side of this. I'm just rational about it. We need fuel to operate. It comes from underground and requires drilling and the associated processes with it. Sure, there will be mistakes made. There are those things in every industry or manufacturing process.

The gas industry is here to stay unless government stops them from removing the resource. I can tell you that from the information and research I've done, this is not going to be a three year deal. This is generational. We better get used to a change in the way of life with the big trucks and other things.

People railed against the Berwick power plant.
People railed against the power plant in Washingtonville
People railed against the proposed windmills to our North
People are railing against the Marcellus Shale industry.
People will rail against the drilling of the layers of rock beneath the Marcellus Shale (that holds more oil than we can imagine)
People will surely rail against solar power as well.

I'm convinced that people just want to bitch about everything anymore.

[Gavin]

The issue of contaminated wells is a separate issue than unsubstantiated rumors of gas companies buying up properties in Williamsport.

[leisuresuitlarry]

I won't rail against Solar Power. Just how much it cost to convert to it. If it's so great and could benefit the entire area then how about making it feasible for average folks to convert and start making their own electric and feeding their surplus into the grid?

As far as the gas boom, I feel deep in my soul that this is going to be bad news for this region in the long run - on several levels.

[twinder]

Aug 12, 2011 14:32:14 GMT -5 leisuresuitlarry said:

As far as the gas boom, I feel deep in my soul that this is going to be bad news for this region in the long run - on several levels.

Larry, I can understand your concerns and fears. I just hope that you are wrong about it in the long run.

[relenemiller]

Todd, I'm not against progress and fuel extraction. I am against no accountability and when things happen on properties that never happened before, one can only draw a conclusion and point at the 'CHANGE' that transpired to cause this. Also, like Larry...I'm not against solar, either..I've been saying for years that's an underestimated source of natural energy we do little about. We drill, we extract water to drill, and we extract more water from veins that never were disrupted before, something is going to give. This is not all said and done. Lest, I remind PA pro gas co.'s about Centralia and TMI and recently in Japan that we will never know about the actual devastation. Todd, you know I'm not for saving turtles or trees, or surface likes. But, when you start going down, way down, something is going to disrupt. Our water is very important. No, the friends I have didn't give a Carte' Blanche to drill and agree that if something went wrong as long as they had water pumped/brought in bottles into and onto their property by a huge tanker that it was O.K. That was not part of the initial agreement. Indeed, they were assured, like every other trusting soul, that everything was safe and that nothing would happen to their water. Sort of like the bill of good s that we, as Pennsylvanians have been delivered.

Gavin, properties are being bought, surely you don't think that they aren't? I concur with Todd that people didn't complain when Susque Health and local colleges bought out properties. But, this is different in that when properties are purchased that elderly people live in a building bought by a gas co. and the elderly person is on a fixed income, can they afford an increase?

Surely, not one person on here believes that the gas co.'s care one iota about what is left behind? You're right, it won't be a three year thing. It will be for some time and that only heightens the alarm, if you will.

I would like just one of you to explain how you rationalize an individual being responsible in life (and there is nothing wrong with that) but don't believe corporations should be held into accountability? I asked that in an earlier post, I think.

I'm not bit*****, or whining or complaining, I'm being cautious and concerned. If you really believe that the gas co.'s can come in here, ravage our natural resources and no leave a path of destruction behind, you are fooling yourselves and certainly more hopeful than I am. As for the heavy tankers...as if our roads aren't bad enough in this state...Are the gas co.'s going to pay for repairs? I think not.

And of the percentage of gas that is extracted, just how much is coming back to us? I admit I'm not an economist...but it makes sense mathematically speaking that if those working for the gas c.'s make triple and quadruple incomes compared to local income, how does that benefit us?